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Upgrade fluid and/or cool. Cross-weight percentage compares the diagonal weight totals to the car's total weight. Put the car on ride height blocks without the shocks in the car and then measure the shock length from center of bolt to center of bolt. We run an extremely high banked 1/5 mile clay oval in Alabama that is always wet and low bite. Static weight distribution is the weight resting on each tire contact patch with the car at rest, exactly the way it will be raced. I just back all of the damping off totally. Are they non-adjustable? Caster and Caster split can be adjusted to find more speed and stability. Kart Scaling & Weight Distribution - Woodbridge Kart Club CG Height Calculator, Cross Weight % = The angles are another way to set the suspension for the desired ride height and cross-weight percentage. LR 175, RR 350 - 350 175 = 2.00 multiplier for the rear. Rolling the car onto the scales from a small ramp that's the same thickness as the scales seems like a better option, but does it truly remove all the bind? unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other racers add "wedge" by adjusting the right rear spring perch--they calipers. of the scale to take a reading. 4. When I drive down a strait road the I can clearly feel that the drivers side is heavier over bumps expansion joints and dips and the like. There are legal issues too at the front. Any corner weight adjustments that you make will impact the alignment of your car. I even thought my excel spreadsheet calculated it's recommended corner weights to achieve 50% cross weight. The fact about this concept is when you put a softer right rear bar in, the car rolls more to the right rear but it is actually transferring less weight. If you want to raise the front of the car then extend only the few inches several times on the scales before each reading though just for good Right Front = I started out with the KW spring perches set exactly the same It also helps when shaking the car to take the bind out of the linkages. over Unless you have some kind of stupid hyper-critically damped NASCAR type dampers this isn't really necessary. Roll Center Explained - FMI Knowledge Base - FMI Racing In any case, only make one spring change at a time and re-establish the ride height at that corner, then change the other spring(s). That is equal to 7/8 turn of the adjuster. The height of the rear roll center (and the front also) is critical to handling. Corner weight system - R/C Tech Forums Other things to take into consideration are track conditions and weather changes. More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. You've tried springs, shocks, different bars, neutralizing the anti-roll bar, and nothing seems to work. Using dead struts and lots of bearings will help. This measurement can be manipulated by changing spring rates, coilover . Bearings, like sealed roller bearings,solid bushings, or spherical joints. If you want to lower the front of the car then retract only In other words, to make this method work, wouldn't you really have to drive the car around, preferably going over a few pretty serious bumps, before driving onto the ramps? You can drop the front end slightly or raise the rear end for more aggressive turn-in. height and the shocks set to the exact same spring perch height work but in the end it's worth it. Tuning with anti-dive probably won't be . Did you mean it was off several hundred pounds per corner? I'm off by 0.1% (see numbers on left side of the spreadsheet). Useful fabrication tips for just about any project, A crash course in 3D printing | Making Stuff: Part 2, How to make the move to an aftermarket ECU, 10 Must-Have Tools for a Scratch-Built Car, Fitting tires and wheels when an off-the-shelf option isnt listed. You should also complete this process with approximately the amount of gas with which you will be racing. However, for dirt oval RC cars, foam tires are the norm. Ideal weight percentages: Front - 43-45% Left - 53-56% Cross - 52-54% What do these numbers mean? measure (literally). Now, look into details about the matter. more important corner balancing becomes. Grassroots Motorsports Understanding Corner Weights. rear. difficult to position all 4 scales so you can just drive up on all of them at You've mentioned "dead struts" a couple of times - what do you mean by that? I An analogy which is commonly used is to imagine that the car is a four-legged table. Most people find this out pretty quickly. It's Only after I spent a lot of time bouncing on the door sills did it settle down and stabilize. be appropriate such as making small adjustments to all 4 wheels--add preload to scales are connected properly--you can really screw up your suspension settings The nose weight is simple to remember the tricky ones are - cross and left side adjustments. If we are running twice as stiff a RR spring as the LR, we would need to change the height of the LR spring twice as much as the RR spring so that we don't affect the ride height as we hunt for the correct or desired weight distribution. And there is a methodology, or possibly several that will make this routine easier. the scales. Guess I have to try it. Choose a level spot in your setup area. 2023 Motorsport Marketing. That is because all of the points move together. much Wedge Delta and make the handling worse. It's better to make many small changes than to try Wheel offsets can make a huge difference in fine tuning the chassis which will allow the driver to find a good racing line on the track. much Wedge Delta and make the handling worse. In our example, the front average is 4.25 and the rear is 4.75. If you had a car with a fully rod-ended out suspension that frictionless and frictionless tires you wouldn't need to roll the car around or bounce it or anything. Bite = Left Rear - Right Rear and a positive value means the Do youhave recommendations for such corner weight percentages? It's the effective distribution that changes when you have suspension bind. If you decide to have a tuning shop complete the corner weighting and assuming you are not driving the car to the shop, disconnect the rear sway bar yourself to save the shop time and you money. For now, we don't want the bar to influence the ride height or the weights we set later on. Left Rear tire is carrying more weight so it will get more traction and Kart WHEEL BALANCE - www.KartPartsDepot.com Carry some in your tool kit and buy tarus wheel studs if you want a dirt cheap slightly longer wheel stud to have more safety. If we are talking of weighing a stock type vehicle, not a lot can be done since there are no adjustable parts. springs to put more weight on the left rear (and right front) tires and Today's oval (TVW LSP) - LF = 769D. Now that's pretty cool! Conversely, if the car feels tight throughout the corner, raise both track bars. Race Tires: Are You Ready to Spend Some Money? You need a nice, flat and level surface for the scales. Brake pedal is soft, spongy and/or long before the car is run: Air in the system - bleed brakes. (Right Front + Left Rear) / (Left Front + Right Rear), When balanced the Cross Weight % will be 50%. The following are screen shots from the Check stagger at each tire, even if using radials. Cross weight and left side work backwards in terms of adjustment. Here is a screenshot with some random-ass corner weights. This allows a slightly lower rear stance, which provides a good weight transfer entering a corner. April 2017 -Bracketing settings, 4WD high speed pavement vehicle. This article explains everything pretty clearly and I feel like I could tackle the job myself now! Some of the most popular engine packages are the Yamaha KT100S, Parilla Leopard, Honda CR125, Briggs L0206, Honda Clone, TaG (Touch and Go) and many more. So, deviating from those numbers will mean you have a design other than what was intended for the car. PDF UNDERSTANDING CHASSIS ADJUSTMENTS - Longacre Racing scales. I don't see how this is even possible with a strut type suspension like mine, or with any coilover setup, for that matter, since the weight of the car sits on the collars that go around the shocks/struts. document your current ride heights and your coil over changes each time Struts and trailing arms generally arent great in this case as they have a lot of inherent bind. height and corner balance new springs. Wedge is a term used in the Toe inn a 1/4 inch. line above the scales and then stood on each scale and placed a ruler on the top Taking the time and making the effort always pay dividends. If you don't want to change your ride height then a more balanced approach would Whats your SETUPS Dirt Track Racers? - Racing Forum - j-body It seems to me that if there's bind in the suspension that's preventing all the force of the springs to come into play, the weight read by the scales will be less than the correct value. shocks set to same length left to right (front to rear will be different). %Right Weight = Understanding corner weights | Articles | Grassroots Motorsports The third, and probably the best, option seems to be to invest in a set of hub stands, as this not only takes care of the bind issues via their built-in rollers, but it just makes the task of doing the alignment a lot simpler as well. The "Corner Weight" (virtual scales) now determines the ride height and/or corner weigh . If you increase the amount of cross weight or left side, you will decrease the amount of bite in the kart. Dirt oval racing tips/ Go karts - Don Terrill's Speed-Talk The tiles I How To Set Up RC Dirt Oval A Guide - Explained! 1 of the section on "Adjusting The Corner Weights," and that is 685. If it slows to 100rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 300rpm. need to roll the car back and forth a few inches several times, being careful which is simply the difference between the two diagonal tire weights. I still rolled the car back and forth a will help with those turns. 11. Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. on each wheel to speed shock adjustment. rear should be the same. If you know the front, side, and crossweight percentages, then you can calculate the numbers. stiff springs on your coil overs. Measuring from the center of the tires I got Calculate the rear weight bias by adding the rear weight (LR and RR) of the chassis and dividing it by the total weight of the chassis (LF + RF + LR + RR). The only way to change static weight is to physically move weight or ballast in the car. 2018 Arrow Chassis Street Stock. - zwrw.barettobeltrade.it Shock Position split the adjustment between all four wheels--extend the LF and RR 1 1/4 turns Note your ride heights and Reduced stopping power with normal brake pedal: Pad fade - due either to unbedded new pads or to temperature beyond. The overall effect is much like having no shock in the equation. A lowered rear roll center promotes side bite at the rear which tends to tighten corner handling. Jacking weight will not alter the left side or the rear percentages. I 2) Stagger: Stagger is how much bigger the right side tires are compared to the left side tires. front left and what he means is he's adding weight to the left rear and right front The less fuel in the tank the tighter the chassis will become. In my situation, I have a lift, and I'd like to simply drop my car onto the scales, but it seems like that's the worst option as far as removing friction and bind. Teams that do not stay on top of these two setup phases will not only be inconsistent, they will struggle to find their way setup wise. My starting cross weight was 50.6%, I was off 7lbs Motion Ratio of the lower control arm. Our current setup is as follows - 270 lbs Car & Driver Cross Weight = 48% Rear Weight = 61% Left Side Weight = 51% LF = 56 lbs RF = 48 lbs LR = 82 lbs RR = 83 lbs Find the difference from the desired average ride heights. shouldn't match the front to the rear but your left front and right front shocks Make small changes at the track, and make only one change at a time. And since the necessary scales to complete this process cost in excess of $1,000, I suggest you have the corner weighting done by finding another club racer in your area who has (or knows someone with) access to scales and would be willing to help you. by about 1/4 inch so most of my adjustments were positive--they raised the car. It puts power down better, and any decent FWD car will be carrying a wheel in the air around a turn anyway, so by default the outside rear gets 100% weight transfer when it's being asked to turn anyway. Don't be in a hurry to set ride coil over 5 turns. For our example we use: LF 200, RF 250 - 250 200 = 1.25 multiplier for the front. I have now added the ratios so I can visually see what's happening. Use a load of fuel for where you you want the car balanced, either at the start of the race, the end of the race or an average between the two. Air up the tires as they will roll through tech. traction or bite in left turns. On my ZX2SR my cross weight was consistently in the 49% range. Always try to start with the track bars first. Right Front weight: Left Rear weight: Left Front and Right Rear but you'll have to test to find out what works best. Bite should be positive for oval racing, Wedge = We don't ever move weight around to get crossweight, but we do move weight to change our front-to-rear percent or the side percent of total weight. and have shocks available for all forms of racing - dirt and asphalt sprint cars, dirt and asphalt . used linoleum tiles to shim two of my scales to get them all level. RC Oval racing is probably the easiest form of RC racing right, right? Here's how we find the multipliers. Now that we have the front-to-rear rake set, we adjust the side-to-side rake. after this adjustment we still need to add 39lbs to the Left Front and Choose your ride heights before you measure and/or redesign your front geometry and then maintain those chosen ride heights. Need some dirt oval setup advice! | Hobbyist Forums Left Front weight: By lengthening or shortening a leg, it increases or decreases weight on the other legs. Look at the car as a chair with a short leg, if you want it to turn equally well left and right aim for 50/50 diagonal. Cross Weight Calculator | Eldridge Racing | Micro, MiniSprint Parts and . Road racers can take a page out of the oval racing book and Are they adjustable? I just run higher pressure for the street, I feel mine is pretty close as is. are favoring the left rear tire for better acceleration out of left In the above example, to go from 52 percent to 50 percent cross-weight, try lowering the right front and the left rear one-half turn on the weight jack bolt or spring perch while raising the left front and right rear the same amount. You can see the article here: I use this technique and it "two linoleum tiles & salt" technique to allow the tires to slide on the scales To find RR weight: in left hand turns than in right turns. difficult to position all 4 scales so you can just drive up on all of them at Do not adjust any other wheel's spacing. For high banked tracks, the front spring rate must be increased and it is often necessary to. These tell us all we need to know about the setup relative to the weight distribution. Its important to measure and note your A place where you can add in your Photo Galleries. (i.e., if we move the RF adjuster two rounds, then we will move the LF adjuster 2.5 rounds.) Move ballast first, since it's easier. I weigh 220. end-link into the anti-roll bar's hole. You should read the spring preload amount. I plugged in a bunch of numbers into my calculator and it all checks out. section). The ultimate goal is to find the balance that will eventually lead to faster lap times. A. Basically, I don't see much of a relationship between 'static' corner weighing via adjusting spring length and the addressing of fundamental L/R weight imbalance as those difference are what drive suspension and mass motions when moving. When that time arrives, you walk across the racing surface, into the dirt oval's imperfectly defined center, and meet your instructor. Motors / ESC: Any 1/10th scale motor/esc combo allowed. The front is usually the lowest point on the car and most sanctions maintain a minimum ride height rule. Wheel Offset Changes. things being equal). Yeah generally its the same stagger 9/10 times. [Up] [HarnessInstall] [WingInstall] [RemoveA/C] [OilCooler] [FireSuppress] [CutoffSwitch] [RaceExhaust] [Differential] [CornerBalance] [CatchCan] [RollCenters] [FrontBumpSteer] [Alignment] [ShockTuning] [Aerodynamics] [CatRemove]. The last event in the rain i actually had the rears up to around 38. How NASCAR Wedge Adjustments Work | HowStuffWorks For the teams that are running very soft front coilover springs, you will have a very difficult time moving the adjustment ring with your shocks in the car because of the high amount of pre-load on the spring. Examine a modern push/pull rod suspension, particularly if it uses a crank link to transformthe Softer Right Front and Right Rear Springs 10 lbs at a time Car Loose at Corner Exit Reduce stagger rear tires Raise the Front ride Height Move the Right rear tire in. Put the driver weight in the car, preferably the driver. Setup Tips for Asphalt Oval Racing Intercomp 102030 5X5 Hub-Mounted Corner Weight Scale. to measure your new springs and put the longest spring in the left front--this Hot Rod. Heres a. setup for a weekly show: 1. Wedge Do this at every wheel. How To Corner Weight Your Car - Suspension Secrets dry)! Adding more rebound to the car will make the car more stable on rougher tracks. Intercomp 102030 5X5 Hub-Mounted Corner Weight Scale. Steve Smith Autosports - Tech Tips If you shocks are working normally they are not worth worrying about. The left weight percentage is found by adding the LF weight to the LR weight and dividing the sum by the total weight. Take care that the car does not accidently slide off the scale pads. Make sure all of the weights are in the car including fuel, oil, battery, cooling water, hood, and so on, or weights that will simulate those. positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. The other two corners will gain weight. Bite and Wedge Delta are battery (-15lbs), ride height lowered approximately 1 inch, all 4 Bilstein PSS9 coil over turns. Chassis FAQ | Hyper Racing Understanding corner weights. pounds of preload to the scale weights. center of gravity (CG) height by using this page: A good starting point would be tank of gas. More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. The process is so basic to the setup of the car. You will need to weight your vehicle on each tire to use this tool. Corner weighing will tell you how much overall mass your car has as well as the mass present at each wheel. Firstly, you need to balance out your RC. The left side changes, of course, will be 4.75 times the multiplier for front or rear. Many successful race teams use corner weighting to achieve the same F/R % on both sides equal, not cross weight. Then move components like the battery or fuel cell. I have a 96 civic with a d16/manual. Setup Routine - JOES Racing Products This was my first adjustment: Four turns of positive coil Circle Track Analyzer - Performance Trends If you lower the ride height at a given corner, that corner will lose weight as will the diagonally opposite corner. two years. Even if you pay someone a small amount of money for their help, it will be far better than buying the scales yourself. supposed to. 3. tire pressure RF 43 LF 35 RR 40 LR 35 psi. Similarly, dirt oval cars often represent crossweight as "bite", or weight on the left-rear tire relative to the right-rear tire. Same with go-karts with solid rear axles, they'll lift. Now that we understand why we need to maintain a set ride height, let's go through an example of how to set ride height. Improper weight distribution in your race car - strip burner, autocrosser, circle tracker, etc. so the suspension can settle and unbind. Oval Wheel Load-We have already determined the wheel load we desire in No. That seem like a lot. The other two corners will lose weight. what he means is he's adding weight to the left rear and right front Ok sounds good. Also double check that the then set corner weights and cross weight. When dealing with advanced suspension tuning, some people may adjust the corner weights in a manner to impact the way the car handles based on the tracks layout. Right Rear = car for a week to let the suspension settle: I decided to disconnect the front and rear sway bars to see what positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. 5 So, five rounds in the right-side springs (along with the corresponding Multiplier to the left-side springs) changes the crossweight percent by 5.6 percent, which is 1.12 percent per round, or 0.89 rounds per percent of crossweight. These are your target weights which will yield a 50% Cross Weight: Left Front = Adjusting the sway bar is time consuming and questionable unless it is really stiff. At the right rear, a quarter-inch change in the height of the end of the link will change the angle and can make an asphalt car undriveable. RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup & Tuning Guide (21.5, dirt oval, GFRP, Custom Works, Purpose Built) - YouTube 0:00 / 43:10 Dirt Oval Setup & Tuning Tutorials RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup &. We now take five rounds out of the RR and add five rounds times the rear multiplier, or 2.0 5 = 10 rounds to the LR. The car should be at minimum weight, using ballast as needed to make the proper weight. Make sure the tires are centered on the scales. The typical goal in corner weighting cars is to make the cross weights equal. about 1/8" of wheel movement) to reduce the weight on the right front and left A stiffer spring on one corner equals more weight transfer to that corner. % 50% is optimal, Wedge = Finding these values and maintaining them is at the top of the list for being consistent in your racing effort. You need to follow distinct directions to set up your RC for a dirt oval. Battery: 2 cell lipo max For a car with a 17.5-inch lower control arm length and a ball joint-to-spring mount distance of 2.5 inches, you divide 17.5 by 15 (17.5-2.5) to get 1.1667 and then multiply that by itself to get 1.3611. Or use an automotive tuning shop. Both of these items will impact the cross weight of the car, and therefore they are important in the corner weighting process. How big is the track? I always thought it was the other way, shock travel was increased in order to have more movement for better control over the suspension? Be sure to have the weight of the driver in the seat. A jumbo ziploc bag prevents lube from escaping when not in use. The total weight will ALWAYS be correct unless you can find some way to suspend gravity, if you can let me know. One of the most important aspects of racing is having a good handling balance.